You raise some important points Justin. These points reiterate my position with the SA Blog Awards. What are they actually worth? Not much! The prize is a laughable R20.08 , and a 69 x 100 pixel winners badge, nothing more! This is not an award you would be hang next to your ICT journalist of the year, or Pulitzer Prize, purely because there is no authoritive backing, no serious investment, or simply, the respect needed to take such a thing seriously. This annual perpetuating debate feeds back into the whole idea of an egocentric close-knit community trying too hard to elevate each other’s sense of self by dishing out award banners.
Nic
· 1 year ago
OK, so this sort of post has been coming, whether from you or someone else.
Firstly let me say that 1. I am stoked to be nominated for SA Rocks in two categories and 2. I wont comment on the Thoughtleader issue because both my nominations are in both of TL's categories.
So on to my thoughts:
I agree that transparency is essential to this sort of event/awards. I am not referring to transparency from organisers about things like their involvement. That's been handled well this year. I think it's important that people know what criteria the finalists were selected upon; most votes, most like by organisers/most this-that-or-the-next-thing. Whatever, just let us know.
Then I do think it's important that if you are willing to organise this event that you take ownership/responsibility of it. ie: make sure decisions are made, expressed and acted upon. Don't leave us in the lurch as users/readers/nominees/finalists. Talk to us, get all "web 2.0" on us. hehehe.
Groogle is right as far as I can tell and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I've said it before, blogging is egotistical and awards, by their very nature are ego-feeding. So what? Yes the prize is really a non-entity this year and yes there isn't alot of "esteem" attached to it in some eyes but you know what, i still like to be recognised, as I am sure the other finalists will agree. And in fact, I would really like to win at least one award and I will put that little badge on my blog if I do!
In the end, I think you've written a good post Justin. I agree with the judges issue, that is absurd especially when the awards are almost over. That needs to be rectified immediately by someone involved with the awards. And I'm glad you've posed some solutions and want to get involved. Hopefully it'll make the world of difference next year.
Oh - my last point and own point - Why the hell do we have 2007 awards 3 months in to 2008? Doesn't it make more sense to hold the 2008 awards (the ones for this year) at the end of this year closer to November than April of the following year? Just a thought.
Catherine
· 1 year ago
Having attended the initial SA Blog Awards meeting at Neo I really thought there was potential to elevate the awards to a level that it deserves in terms of both recognition and participation. This is its fourth year running and most people I know, only heard about it last year for the very first time.
First off an award platform such as this requires reputable backers with enough cash to sustain both the operations side as well as the actual ceremony. (Cool Runnings just doesn't cut it as a venue.) I know of at least one major player who has been plaguing me for details on how they can become involved due to the fact that I told them there is an opportunity and that because of who they are, they should consider backing it. To date they have had very little response form the 'organisers' despite the fact that I have followed up on numerous occasions.
I also believe that the awards should be cracked open to a wider audience. Although I don't blog, I am an avid reader of both local and international blogs and know many of my peers who fall into the same category. Somehow the SA Blog Awards remains an 'elitest' platform that the general Internet user (one who does form part of the so called blogosphere) hardly knows of or hears about. Surely approaching one of the bigger online portals in SA will open up the debate, allow for less biased votes and lend the awards more credibility?
Justin Hartman
· 1 year ago
Gregor I agree with you 100% what value is this award giving bloggers? There is no traffic, no money, no prestige (unless you consider the 300 people who partake in it) and no authoritative organisation backing it.
Nic, I really would have liked to know what your position was on sites in wrong categories but I understand where you are coming from.
To be egotistical is one thing but what does this actually mean? Your comment on this is exactly why this "community" is perceived as an elitist group of circle-jerkers and no wonder normal people just can't get what this blogging and Web 2.0 thing is all about. Who'd want to?
Quite frankly I hate that there are so few people actively involved in the community - what about the other 6,000 bloggers on 24.com and the 4,000 on iBlog and the however many on Amagamma?
Justin Hartman
· 1 year ago
Catherine, co-incidentally we were writing about the same thing (in essence) at the same time so I'm going to agree with you 100%. Well constructed comment and I appreciate that you took the time to have your say.
Let's get 24.com, M&G;, The Times, IOL or someone who's playing in the online space to back the awards and give it some legs.
If next years' awards stay like this then we're just perpetuating that 'elitist' environment.
Colin Daniels
· 1 year ago
After what happened last year, I'm not touching this one with a barge pole...
Nic
· 1 year ago
Justin - what makes my comment so bad? The fact that I want to win? That's ridiculous. Why participate if you don't want to win. It's not SA Rocks's fault that the organisers didn't open the awards up to amagama, iblog and 24.com. that would've been brilliant as we have discussed before. I back that move 100%. I am not saying that it's right that the event is perceived as an elitist event, it's not right at all, but before we get in to that debate I'd like to know how many blogs received nominations in the first round. I think we'd be surprised.
And let's be honest we are all very heavily embedded in this elitist regime it appears. I must tell you SA Rocks readership is not the blogosphere as much as it is the average user commenting on a story they googled.
And it is nice to be recognised for your efforts. My comment on this is perfectly justifiable dude. If I'm nominated it's nice to win, ego in or ego out, people like to win stuff and be recognised by anyone anywhere at anytime. Ofcourse if the awards were more reputable with more entires and the like then it'd be better to win and to participate. But that's y we are having this debate i guess, to improve things.
Nic
· 1 year ago
@Colin hahahahahaha - fair decision methinks!!
Andre
· 1 year ago
Also, how many times does a blog need to be nominated before it proceeds to the voting stage? Is one nomination enough, or did you need 50?
VhailorZ
· 1 year ago
hey i think its cool watching people think they are actually any good when they win the SA BLOG AWARDS! dum dum duuuuum!!!
Ok seriously, if theres no demand, then theres no supply. and like justin said. we are talking about a mere 300 people MAX here.
Jeremy Nell
· 1 year ago
Once upon a time, I wrote a blog post about this nonsense. I think I compared the awards to horse turd. Or was it dog turd. I can't remember now. But that's not the point.
After winning a few categories last year (and coming 4th overall, I think), I realised that something was very wrong with the process.
Hence I decided not to be part of it. Unless, of course, my blog was guaranteed a win in the bisexual-gay-lesbian category. Or in Best Self Help Blog (which doesn't exist).
Guy McLaren
· 1 year ago
I declined to enter and in fact asked people not to nominate my blog. All I see are the same suspects.
Jared
· 1 year ago
Why isn't capetownnews.co.za listed in the list of top blogs?
Nic
· 1 year ago
@Andre brilliant question, that's the sort of transparency I was talking bout.
robin@noboxmedia.com
· 1 year ago
I agree on all points. This is my first year as a nominee and I must say the experience so far has been bleak. After a bit of investigating I can still not assign responsibility of the SABlogAwards to any individual, company or organization.
All the points made above are valid, only problem is the organizer/s of the SABlogAwards seem to have no real interest in communicating to the public or improving their service. As such, perhaps the creation of a more credible awards campaign would be the best solution. I would be more than happy to offer my services as a developer/designer if any one is interested in starting a new BlogAwards portal. I am sure I could get support, exposure and perhaps even sponsorship by a well known ICT publisher. I could also arrange free hosting and domain registration.
Just thought I would put the idea out there. Afterall, if the shoe does not fit, get a new one.
Andre
· 1 year ago
@Nic
The reason I ask is that a number of people indicated that they'd nominated my green blog, and my wordpress click reporting indicated that a considerable number of people had clicked to nominate my blog. Perhaps not as many as Urban Sprout, for example, but the last time I check voting protocol one nomination + one seconding meant that one could stand?
Either way, it would just be interesting to know what the governing principles were. Anybody? Rafiq?
Justin Hartman
· 1 year ago
Nic, I think you've misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I honestly feel that a lot of those sites (sarocks included) deserve an award and some recognition because they are good initiatives but at the same time there are some I just completely disagree with. But hey, I'm not the public and this is what they voted on.
My issue was more about the fact that we need credibility to these awards and this is lacking. They have tried desperately to be transparent but as I said communication has been flawed.
In terms of egos and being an elitist I think we need to explore this a little. Bloggers, in the old sense, are egotistical. I personally don't write my blog so people can say how great I am, I actually do it because I just want to share stuff with people that matter to me. If others read my stuff - great - if not so be it.
Awards from a blog perspective are meaningless to me - but that's just me. I agree with being recognised for achievements but I want to be recognised in a proper way.
If I knew 4 million people nominated on the Blog Awards then I'd feel proud of my achievements but to just have 300 people nominate perpetuates the elitist, little-boys club that we ALL belong to. I'm no different to you in this regard however I want this to change.
My question to you is this. Why do you need a badge on your site from people who already think you're doing a great job? Does this somehow validate your efforts or is it just your ego that would like one?
What happens if you don't win, how will you feel?
Stii
· 1 year ago
I'm with Colin on this one this year. Cheers. Out. Colin, fancy a round of golf while this plays out?!
Expensive Mistakes and Cheap T
· 1 year ago
I agree with what you have expressed in this post.
There is no transparency whatsoever in this awards process. I would also like to know who the judges are. That should have been annouced at the beginning of the nominations process.
As for the removal of a whole load of categories, I actually enquired into that and was informed that those categories were removed due to 'lack of quality nominations' - this is a vague, avoiding-the-real-issue answer, if ever I've heard one.
If people nominated, those votes should have been carried through. Just to ensure that the awards are a proper reflection of the reading populace.
And I agree that the awards serve to perpetuate the 'elitist' environment - as such, I'd like to know how many nominations were actually cast, and how many it took to qualify as a finalist.
As a finalist myself, both in the best personal blog category (a category that myself and another blogger suggested) and best group blog, I dont mind if my personal blog doesn't win. In fact, it probably wont. The usual suspects will win.
But the group blog I run would be much more deserving as it is much better to share a win with others, than it is to win alone. And as for the prizes, does anyone even know what they are?
Justin Hartman
· 1 year ago
The prize is: R20.08...
Groogle
· 1 year ago
...and a 69 x 100 pixel winners badge
Justin Hartman
· 1 year ago
‘lack of quality nominations’ - that infuriates me.. I personally nominated for David Bullard and Bolton in the Most Controversial Blog as I felt they were both defining moments in the Bologosphere in 2007.
Are you telling me David Bullard is not a quality blog and that Bolton didn't highlight many key issues in our blogosphere?
coda
· 1 year ago
My barge pole is bigger than your barge pole.
tuberider
· 1 year ago
Hey why don't we set up a bad blog awards?
as long as I win something that is. I want to be great.
Have a nice day.
gmk
· 1 year ago
What should be a joyous time for the community to respect their peers and show [ thick enough cheese? ] we really care about everybody and our carbon footprint when the reality is our little blogowhatitsname is no bigger than coda's barge poll or David Bullards IQ.
Every year you all get your knickers in a fat knot and make derogatory comments about other peoples mothers. When you have all finished with your annual self masturbatory flagellation of how important you all are let it dawn like a new rainbow nation that no-one other than the ones who run it or whine about it give a flaying faaaaark.
Glen
· 1 year ago
Great post Justin and I thought I'd like to add my views as expressed by myself and other independent podcasters in South Africa.
The "Best SA Podcast" category for the SA Blog Awards. The description clearly reads "Best independently produced video or audio podcast in SA". It so happend that a huge number of the nomincations are clearly not independent podcasts and added to that, that one of the nominees, 2oceansvibe.com is not even a podcast, but a blog with embedded YouTube videos! I was unable to locate the RSS feed for the Just Plain Darren podcast on the webiste and without that, it isn't considered a podcast.
I am extremely greatful for my podcast getting a nomincation this year, but I think there should of been some form of obvious filtering done in this category, even if the public vote is the exclusive vote. Jon has been made aware of this, but with the rules this year, is unable to do something about it.
Rudolph
· 1 year ago
Although I think there can be vast improvement to many media awards in the tech space, the Blog awards and any other similar accolades does serve the purpose of promoting the industry. I think many people – including me on many occasions – make the mistake to assume that the purpose of awards is always to discover and reward the best in its field. This is only partly true…
To truly reward the best in the industry – in whatever field – is such a complex task that one should not expect this to easily happen. Even with mainstream awards – like the Telkom journalist of the Year awards – many problems occur and controversial choices are made.
I personally think that any awards process should involve readers, writers and industry experts – assuming that there is a large enough user base. With limited resources this is not possible, which is why many of the top blogs and podcasts are absent. This however does not mean that the awards are useless – just less accurate than what it can be. The question really is how inaccurate…here I can not judge…
Expensive Mistakes and Cheap T
· 1 year ago
when I asked if anyone knew what the prizes are, I was referring to the ten supposedly sponsored prizes mentioned on the SA Blog Awards site.
Spencer Drew Patrick Eggworth
· 1 year ago
Oh come on! What a waste of good processing power debating this. These awards are a complete and utter crock o' SH*T. The majority of local blogs are utter rubbish (mine included) and these awards just perpetuate the myth of Web 2.00 stardom in the minds of a few deluded individuals. Wake up and smell the Java.
Blog Awards Fan
· 1 year ago
Richard Catto is just a jealous little prick with more than one pseudonym
Richard Catto
· 1 year ago
@BAF » Actually, I don't use pseudonyms on blogs. I didn't post the above question regarding my own blog.
phillygirl
· 1 year ago
Quite the interesting read and this certainly generated a lot of comments ... as I think have all SA Blog Award posts in recent weeks.
I too attended the Cool Running event last year and as events go, it was fairly dull. I enjoy the process of being a finalist tho, if only to get my blog exposed to a wider audience.
I think the SA Blog Awards are pretty much a work-in-progress and each year some things improve and some stay the same. And it's only thru people discussing the flaws that things will improve.
I have to agree that I don't agree with Thought Leader being considered a "blog" ... I nominated a specific Thought Leader Blog in a certain (discarded) category and I think that's a far better approach. If Thought Leader itself should be a finalist (or winner) in any category it should be a category like: "Best SA Web Application for Weblogs" or similar.
I think there should definitely be more of a consensus regarding the award categories :) (I mean really, what kind of award system has a category for people writing about the awards?)
And for what it's worth I think it's okay that some categories were discarded. If only one SA blog got nominated for a category, firstly: perhaps the category wasn't very well thought out and secondly: where's the competition, it kinda defeats the purpose. But then again, I agree that there should've been a bit of a better explanation around this decision!
All Comments
Firstly let me say that 1. I am stoked to be nominated for SA Rocks in two categories and 2. I wont comment on the Thoughtleader issue because both my nominations are in both of TL's categories.
So on to my thoughts:
I agree that transparency is essential to this sort of event/awards. I am not referring to transparency from organisers about things like their involvement. That's been handled well this year. I think it's important that people know what criteria the finalists were selected upon; most votes, most like by organisers/most this-that-or-the-next-thing. Whatever, just let us know.
Then I do think it's important that if you are willing to organise this event that you take ownership/responsibility of it. ie: make sure decisions are made, expressed and acted upon. Don't leave us in the lurch as users/readers/nominees/finalists. Talk to us, get all "web 2.0" on us. hehehe.
Groogle is right as far as I can tell and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I've said it before, blogging is egotistical and awards, by their very nature are ego-feeding. So what? Yes the prize is really a non-entity this year and yes there isn't alot of "esteem" attached to it in some eyes but you know what, i still like to be recognised, as I am sure the other finalists will agree. And in fact, I would really like to win at least one award and I will put that little badge on my blog if I do!
In the end, I think you've written a good post Justin. I agree with the judges issue, that is absurd especially when the awards are almost over. That needs to be rectified immediately by someone involved with the awards. And I'm glad you've posed some solutions and want to get involved. Hopefully it'll make the world of difference next year.
Oh - my last point and own point - Why the hell do we have 2007 awards 3 months in to 2008? Doesn't it make more sense to hold the 2008 awards (the ones for this year) at the end of this year closer to November than April of the following year? Just a thought.
First off an award platform such as this requires reputable backers with enough cash to sustain both the operations side as well as the actual ceremony. (Cool Runnings just doesn't cut it as a venue.) I know of at least one major player who has been plaguing me for details on how they can become involved due to the fact that I told them there is an opportunity and that because of who they are, they should consider backing it. To date they have had very little response form the 'organisers' despite the fact that I have followed up on numerous occasions.
I also believe that the awards should be cracked open to a wider audience. Although I don't blog, I am an avid reader of both local and international blogs and know many of my peers who fall into the same category. Somehow the SA Blog Awards remains an 'elitest' platform that the general Internet user (one who does form part of the so called blogosphere) hardly knows of or hears about. Surely approaching one of the bigger online portals in SA will open up the debate, allow for less biased votes and lend the awards more credibility?
Nic, I really would have liked to know what your position was on sites in wrong categories but I understand where you are coming from.
To be egotistical is one thing but what does this actually mean? Your comment on this is exactly why this "community" is perceived as an elitist group of circle-jerkers and no wonder normal people just can't get what this blogging and Web 2.0 thing is all about. Who'd want to?
Quite frankly I hate that there are so few people actively involved in the community - what about the other 6,000 bloggers on 24.com and the 4,000 on iBlog and the however many on Amagamma?
Let's get 24.com, M&G;, The Times, IOL or someone who's playing in the online space to back the awards and give it some legs.
If next years' awards stay like this then we're just perpetuating that 'elitist' environment.
And let's be honest we are all very heavily embedded in this elitist regime it appears. I must tell you SA Rocks readership is not the blogosphere as much as it is the average user commenting on a story they googled.
And it is nice to be recognised for your efforts. My comment on this is perfectly justifiable dude. If I'm nominated it's nice to win, ego in or ego out, people like to win stuff and be recognised by anyone anywhere at anytime. Ofcourse if the awards were more reputable with more entires and the like then it'd be better to win and to participate. But that's y we are having this debate i guess, to improve things.
Ok seriously, if theres no demand, then theres no supply. and like justin said. we are talking about a mere 300 people MAX here.
After winning a few categories last year (and coming 4th overall, I think), I realised that something was very wrong with the process.
Hence I decided not to be part of it. Unless, of course, my blog was guaranteed a win in the bisexual-gay-lesbian category. Or in Best Self Help Blog (which doesn't exist).
All the points made above are valid, only problem is the organizer/s of the SABlogAwards seem to have no real interest in communicating to the public or improving their service. As such, perhaps the creation of a more credible awards campaign would be the best solution. I would be more than happy to offer my services as a developer/designer if any one is interested in starting a new BlogAwards portal. I am sure I could get support, exposure and perhaps even sponsorship by a well known ICT publisher. I could also arrange free hosting and domain registration.
Just thought I would put the idea out there. Afterall, if the shoe does not fit, get a new one.
The reason I ask is that a number of people indicated that they'd nominated my green blog, and my wordpress click reporting indicated that a considerable number of people had clicked to nominate my blog. Perhaps not as many as Urban Sprout, for example, but the last time I check voting protocol one nomination + one seconding meant that one could stand?
Either way, it would just be interesting to know what the governing principles were. Anybody? Rafiq?
My issue was more about the fact that we need credibility to these awards and this is lacking. They have tried desperately to be transparent but as I said communication has been flawed.
In terms of egos and being an elitist I think we need to explore this a little. Bloggers, in the old sense, are egotistical. I personally don't write my blog so people can say how great I am, I actually do it because I just want to share stuff with people that matter to me. If others read my stuff - great - if not so be it.
Awards from a blog perspective are meaningless to me - but that's just me. I agree with being recognised for achievements but I want to be recognised in a proper way.
If I knew 4 million people nominated on the Blog Awards then I'd feel proud of my achievements but to just have 300 people nominate perpetuates the elitist, little-boys club that we ALL belong to. I'm no different to you in this regard however I want this to change.
My question to you is this. Why do you need a badge on your site from people who already think you're doing a great job? Does this somehow validate your efforts or is it just your ego that would like one?
What happens if you don't win, how will you feel?
There is no transparency whatsoever in this awards process. I would also like to know who the judges are. That should have been annouced at the beginning of the nominations process.
As for the removal of a whole load of categories, I actually enquired into that and was informed that those categories were removed due to 'lack of quality nominations' - this is a vague, avoiding-the-real-issue answer, if ever I've heard one.
If people nominated, those votes should have been carried through. Just to ensure that the awards are a proper reflection of the reading populace.
And I agree that the awards serve to perpetuate the 'elitist' environment - as such, I'd like to know how many nominations were actually cast, and how many it took to qualify as a finalist.
As a finalist myself, both in the best personal blog category (a category that myself and another blogger suggested) and best group blog, I dont mind if my personal blog doesn't win. In fact, it probably wont. The usual suspects will win.
But the group blog I run would be much more deserving as it is much better to share a win with others, than it is to win alone. And as for the prizes, does anyone even know what they are?
Are you telling me David Bullard is not a quality blog and that Bolton didn't highlight many key issues in our blogosphere?
as long as I win something that is. I want to be great.
Have a nice day.
Every year you all get your knickers in a fat knot and make derogatory comments about other peoples mothers. When you have all finished with your annual self masturbatory flagellation of how important you all are let it dawn like a new rainbow nation that no-one other than the ones who run it or whine about it give a flaying faaaaark.
The "Best SA Podcast" category for the SA Blog Awards. The description clearly reads "Best independently produced video or audio podcast in SA". It so happend that a huge number of the nomincations are clearly not independent podcasts and added to that, that one of the nominees, 2oceansvibe.com is not even a podcast, but a blog with embedded YouTube videos! I was unable to locate the RSS feed for the Just Plain Darren podcast on the webiste and without that, it isn't considered a podcast.
I am extremely greatful for my podcast getting a nomincation this year, but I think there should of been some form of obvious filtering done in this category, even if the public vote is the exclusive vote. Jon has been made aware of this, but with the rules this year, is unable to do something about it.
To truly reward the best in the industry – in whatever field – is such a complex task that one should not expect this to easily happen. Even with mainstream awards – like the Telkom journalist of the Year awards – many problems occur and controversial choices are made.
I personally think that any awards process should involve readers, writers and industry experts – assuming that there is a large enough user base. With limited resources this is not possible, which is why many of the top blogs and podcasts are absent. This however does not mean that the awards are useless – just less accurate than what it can be. The question really is how inaccurate…here I can not judge…
I too attended the Cool Running event last year and as events go, it was fairly dull. I enjoy the process of being a finalist tho, if only to get my blog exposed to a wider audience.
I think the SA Blog Awards are pretty much a work-in-progress and each year some things improve and some stay the same. And it's only thru people discussing the flaws that things will improve.
I have to agree that I don't agree with Thought Leader being considered a "blog" ... I nominated a specific Thought Leader Blog in a certain (discarded) category and I think that's a far better approach. If Thought Leader itself should be a finalist (or winner) in any category it should be a category like: "Best SA Web Application for Weblogs" or similar.
I think there should definitely be more of a consensus regarding the award categories :) (I mean really, what kind of award system has a category for people writing about the awards?)
And for what it's worth I think it's okay that some categories were discarded. If only one SA blog got nominated for a category, firstly: perhaps the category wasn't very well thought out and secondly: where's the competition, it kinda defeats the purpose. But then again, I agree that there should've been a bit of a better explanation around this decision!